What a mysteri in a mysteriously country law of Indonesian and american..its all about mr Obama child hood memos in indonesia

Obama citizenship a mystery: Indonesia allows foreign children adopted and does not allow dual citizenship.

Posted by africanpress on October 25, 2008

Author : zhoutay (IP: The IP number removed.fast.net.id)
E-mail : The email removed
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Comment:

Although I’m an Indonesian and I loved to supported Barack Obama as the US President, but I prefer that all nation in the world is lead by their own people (having true nationality). I know by saying all of this things, I might called traitor by my own countryman but I think the truth shall set us free.
I learned about his past in Indonesia, and guess what; in Indonesia especially back on that era during late 60’s up to late 70’s, Indonesia was on power struggle between Soekarno and Soeharto.  as Zhou yue my relative said on texasdralin:
You got it 100% right sir. He is an Indonesian. Why, For the law. Period. When he stay and went to school on the public school, the law also said that only Indonesian that had all the right to go to the public school. The other shall required SKBRI (Surat Keterangan Berkewarganegaraan Indonesia/ Letter for acknowledge of Indonesian citizenship) which practically applied the most on the Chinese and foreigner that mostly were non Muslim origins. However for his step father were native Indonesian, then his mother automatically could become Indonesian too. As well as he. Remember this, once you become Indonesian, then you must revoke your old nationality, period. As a Chinese man and former Indonesian citizen I dare to speak for this. As 3 richax said:

This is where your logic falls apart:

Now while Indonesia does not allow children over the age of five to be adopted, so far as I can tell, it does recognize that other countries do so. There is a provision covering that:

A foreign child aged below 21 and unmarried, who is adopted by an Indonesian, will be eligible for Indonesian citizenship if the process does not cause dual citizenship.So it is possible to adopt a child abroad under the Laws of another country, for example the USA, and that child could be of any age. But, you say, if you adopt an American child that IS causing Dual Citizenship. In the real world the rest of us live in, yes, but in Indonesian Law: his or her relationship to the birth parents is severed by adoption

 

From your endnote 3:
Therefore he is Indonesian and truly must not has any right once so ever to even went to this race. Why, because our nation law forbid that unless that child is not revoke his nationality when he become Indonesian, while his parents is 100% certainly must revoke his old nationality in order to get him to school in Indonesia. Lolo Sutoro is not a stupid man after all. Only us the Americans are the biggest fools.
And allowed me to write his base on Indonesian constitution translation:
Pasal 31
(1) Tiap-tiap warga negara berhak mendapat pengajaran.
(2) Pemerintah mengusahakan dan menyelenggarakan satu sistem pengajaran nasional, yang diatur dengan undang-undang.
Article 31:
1. Every citizen (Indonesian citizen) have right to gain education.
2. Government shall provide and create a national education system, which applied by law.
By this original Indonesian constitution, has stated clear that only Indonesian that had access to studying on public school. And since Indonesia don’t apply dual nationality, means he must drop his US nationality first before he become Indonesian. After I seen the AP picture that contains his school  
cerfiticate, now I convinced that he is truly is Indonesian. I also read about the US constitution and I think this man, no matter how bright he is and how proud I’m had he become the US president must not become the US President at all.
—————

84 Responses to “Obama citizenship a mystery: Indonesia allows foreign children adopted and does not allow dual citizenship.”

  1. SmellsLikebo Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 9:46 pm
    We are issuing a CHALLENGE to the John McCain Campaign!

    Since NO News Media will cover this and only the people (Several Million), have brought this question up and have NOT! received a legal answer to it.

    We Challenge the John McCain campaign and the GOP to “Prove” Barrack Obama, is legally qualified to run for the office of the President of the United States of America.

    http://www.smellslikebo.com/blog/blog5.php?p=134&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

  2. HonestyInWhiteHouse Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 10:26 pm
    FINALLY…THE TRUTH COMES OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5777
  3. HistorianDude Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 10:27 pm
    Indonesian law is irrelevant to American citizenship. The United States is a sovereign nation, and only American law can determine who is or is not an American citizen. It does not matter what any other nation recognizes, allows, permits or legislates. Let me put as fine a point on it as possible:

    Indonesia cannot take away an American’s citizenship.

  4. HistorianDude Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 10:29 pm
    I challenge you to come up with an even more futile gesture than challenging the McCain campaign to do anything.

    – sheesh

  5. homer j simpson Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 10:32 pm
    POST#4 “Historiandude” if that is your real name,I challenge you to explain the comments President Bush made earlier today regarding the electionIt’s a short outake from press conference:www.youtube,com/watch?v=DXCbAtkgNMw
  6. meg Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 11:00 pm
    Historian:
    Obama’s mother would have surrended her and her son’s citizenship in order to get Indonesian citizenship! That is the point!
  7. cloud Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 11:07 pm
    And…if he was an Indonesian sicitzen and he dropped the status, wouldn’t
    t that make him a naturalized citizen – not natural born?
  8. cloud Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 11:08 pm
    Wow, my fingers didn’t work well on that one!
  9. Lady Texan Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 11:08 pm
    Philip J. Berg is Appealing to the U.S. Supreme Court as Obama is “NOT” qualified to be President of the United States Lawsuit Against Obama Dismissed from Philadelphia Federal Court

    For Immediate Release: – 10/25/08 – Contact Info at end.

    (Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 10/25/08) – Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama’s lack of “qualifications” to serve as President of the United States, announced today that he is immediately appealing the dismissal of his case to the United States Supreme Court. The case is Berg v. Obama, No. 08-cv-04083.

    Berg said, “I am totally disappointed by Judge Surrick’s decision and, for all citizens of the United States, I am immediately appealing to the U.S. Supreme Court.

    This is a question of who has standing to uphold our Constitution. If I don’t have standing, if you don’t have standing, if your neighbor doesn’t have standing to question the eligibility of an individual to be President of the United States – the Commander-in-Chief, the most powerful person in the world – then who does?

    So, anyone can just claim to be eligible for congress or the presidency without having their legal status, age or citizenship questioned.

    According to Judge Surrick, we the people have no right to police the eligibility requirements under the U.S. Constitution.

    What happened to ‘…Government of the people, by the people, for the people,…’ Abraham Lincoln in his Gettysburg Address 1863.

    We must legally prevent Obama, the unqualified candidate, from taking the Office of the Presidency of the United States,” Berg said.

    Our website obamacrimes.com now has 71.8 + million hits. We are urging all to spread the word of our website – and forward to your local newspapers and radio and TV stations.

    Berg again stressed his position regarding the urgency of this case as, “we” the people, are heading to a “Constitutional Crisis” if this case is not resolved forthwith.

    * * For copies of all Court Pleadings, go to obamacrimes.com

  10. theotherpeyton Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 11:20 pm
    Can anyone tell me as to what is happening to the MO tapes? I’ve been coming here off and on for the past week or so and haven’t heard any major news outlet report on lawsuits or the tapes. I’ve been reading alot of posts today and on different subjects for this API site. Just a concerned citizen.

    Thanks in advance,

  11. Lloyd Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 11:22 pm
    Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.
    http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

    The issue remains: where was Obama born. Grandma says Kenya. Here’s a scary thought……..If Odinga knows that Obama was born in Kenya, he could keep those records to blackmail Obama. Why blackmail? Odinga does business with Iran. You do the math.

  12. Melissa Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 11:41 pm
    This is just ridiculous! Here in America my 18 year old son has to be drug tested and prove he is an American Citizen before he can work at McDonlds fast food restaraunt but someone who will be in charge of this country does not have to prove anything to us?

    Think of it as the American people as a boss contemplating hiring Obama..what would be expected from Obama as a perspective employee? Experience? Citenship? Trust? Background check? Clen drug record? The only thing he qualifies for here in America with what he has shown so far is a job as one of those aggravating phone soliciters that call right when you start to sit down to dinner with your family.

    But McCain is also part of the corrupt 2 Party System and that is why as an American citizen I am giving my vote to the only candidate that has actually proven to me that he deserves it. I am giving it to the one candidate that has passed my interview that I would give any perspective employee. My vote will be given to Ralph Nader. I refuse to wast my vote on anyone that does not reflect my values and my stance on the issues that concern me and my family.

    To learn more about Ralph Nader and his running mate, Matt Gonzalez go to http://www.votenader.org

    And I to will also like to hear an update on the Michelle Obama taped phone recording. Who finally came up with enough money to buy them or if Berg has them why does he not mention anything recently on his site, obamacrimes.com? Has anyone heard the tapes that can verify that they are indeed the real thing? Come on now..enough is enough..to quote Michelle Obama..supposedly.

  13. AmericanVoterMom Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 11:48 pm
    Theotherpeyton,

    The Mrs Obama tapes are in the hands of experts in the US, determining their authenticity by voice analysis.

    Mr. Korir did provide us with a brief bit of the 58 minute recording. A hint of the content including who will be invited to the January inauguration and MO stating plans of negotiations with Kenya once her husband is “installed” as president.

    Things are progressing nicely and it may be presented to the public before Nov 4th (but hopefully as soon as possible perhaps next week).

    P.S. It is a bit cheeky and pre-mature of Obama and his campaign to be planning a million dollar party for Nov 4th isn’t it?

  14. AmericanVoterMom Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 11:50 pm
    I meant a written statement of the 58min recording, not an actual sound bite sorry if I was misleading
  15. AmericanVoterMom Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 11:51 pm
    http://africanpress.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/michelle-obama-tapes-reveals-raila-odinga-kenyas-prime-minister-is-in-the-priority-list-of-the-first-guests-to-the-white-house-if-obama-wins-the-us-presidency/
  16. Erick Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 12:26 am
    I am an American citizen and have lived in Indonesia for many years, my wife is also Indonesian. I do know Americans who have taken Indonesian citizenship so that they can bypass the difficulty of applying for a visa every year to stay in Indonesia. There is a trick that many expats in Indonesia know. Although Indonesia does not recognize duel citizenship, an American can become an Inodnesian citizen and still hold on to their U.S. citizenship. The reason for this is the only way you can lose your U.S. citizenship is through a U.S. court of law. just because you deny your U.S. citizenship to take Indonesian citizenship, this does not mean that you lose your U.S. citizenship.

    I wish this case was more clear cut than it is, I would love to see Obama disqualified. The best bet would be to track down where he was actually born. If he was born in Kenya as I suspect then he would be inelegible to be president of the U.S.

  17. HONESTYINWHITEHOUSE Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 12:35 am
    HAVE YOU SEEN THIS VIDEO YET?

    http://www.viddler.com/explore/ATLAHWorldwide/videos/27/

    IN CASE NO MICHELLE OBAMA TAPE SHOWS UP…PUT THIS ALL OVER YOUTUBE.COM & SEND TO ANYONE DOUBTING WHO THEY WILL VOTE FOR. THIS PROVES IT IS NOT ABOUT RACE OR BIAS. FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR CHILDREN…TAKE THE TIME TO GET THIS WORD OUT TO THE MASSES!

    VOTE, BUT CHOOSE WISELY!

  18. WILLIAM Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 12:48 am
    In regard to zhoutay and Erick:

    Lulu and mama Obama are married. Mama Obama becomes Indonesian citizen with child Barack who then becomes Indonesian citizen. No renunciation of U.S. citizenship –
    It just is!

    (Pun here: It depends on what “IS” “IS”😉 )

    So I guess it depends on… was a Kenyan? Then is he still a Kenyan or American?

  19. ace Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 2:00 am
    I have this vision of you people hunched over your keyboards on November 4 looking for the latest “update” here, and suddenly looking up at your clock which reads 9:30 PM and realizing you forgot to vote.

    We go through this hysteria every election now. I remember in 2000 people swore Bush had heavily armed henchman physically holding back minority voters in Florida so he could steal the election.

    I give up…

  20. HONESTYINWHITEHOUSE Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 2:02 am
    =============HEY MAIN STREAM MEDIA==============

    NOW WON’T YOU LOOK FOOLISH WHEN THE TRUTH FINALLY COMES OUT?

    AMERICA: DEMAND THE FACTS,NOT HYPE. THIS IS NOT A FOOTBALL GAME!

    THE EVENTS BEING PERPETUATED BY MR OBAMA ARE FEDERAL OFFENCES

    *****NOW…SINCE OUR NATION IS AT WAR & THIS IS TREASON****

    ==========WHAT IS THE PUNISHMENT AGAIN?===============

    I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS MICHELLE OBAMA TAPE IS FOR REAL…
    BUT I WOULD BE GLAD TO RUN WITH IT & PASS IT ON
    ****SEND IT TO ME…LOTS OF ROOM IN MY EMAIL ACCOUNT****

    COME ON API – DARE YOU! I COULD USE THE EXCITEMENT

    AND WHILE YOU ARE AT IT…SEND TO ALL OF US BLOGGERS

  21. HONESTYINWHITEHOUSE Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 2:03 am
    ((((=========HEY MAIN STREAM MEDIA==========))))

    NOW WON’T YOU LOOK FOOLISH WHEN THE TRUTH FINALLY COMES OUT?

    AMERICA: DEMAND THE FACTS,NOT HYPE. THIS IS NOT A FOOTBALL GAME!

    THE EVENTS BEING PERPETUATED BY MR OBAMA ARE FEDERAL OFFENCES

    *****NOW…SINCE OUR NATION IS AT WAR & THIS IS TREASON****

    ==========WHAT IS THE PUNISHMENT AGAIN?===============

    I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS MICHELLE OBAMA TAPE IS FOR REAL…
    BUT I WOULD BE GLAD TO RUN WITH IT & PASS IT ON
    ****SEND IT TO ME…LOTS OF ROOM IN MY EMAIL ACCOUNT****

    COME ON API – DARE YOU! I COULD USE THE EXCITEMENT

    AND WHILE YOU ARE AT IT…SEND TO ALL OF US BLOGGERS

  22. HistorianDude Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 2:40 am
    Meg you are wrong.

    A person cannot surrender anybody’s citizenship but their own. Not a child’s, not a spouse’s, not a parent’s. This is established case law and the conclusion of at least one US Supreme Court Decision.

    Obama’s mother cannot have done squat about Obama’s citizenship.

  23. J Galt Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:11 am
    Under the Indonesian adoption law, once adopted by an Indonesian citizen, the adoption severs the child’s relationship to the birth parents, and the adopted child is given the same status as a natural child (Indonesian Constitution, Article 2)

    The laws in Indonesia at the time of Obama’s arrival did not allow dual citizenship. If an Indonesian citizen married a foreigner, as in this case, Obama’s mother was requires to renounce her US Citizenship and was sponsored by her Indonesian spouse. The public schools did not allow foreign students, only citizens were allowed to attend as Indonesia was under strict rule and decreed a number of restrictions, therefore, in order for Obama to have attended school in Jakarta, which he did, he had to be a citizen of Indonesia, as the citizenship status of enrolled students was verified with Government records.

    Obama attended Fransiskus Assisi School in Jakarta, Indonesia.

    Since Obama’s birth was legally acknowledged by Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian Citizen, and/or Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, Obama became an Indonesian citizen and bears the same status as an Indonesian natural child (natural-born). For this reason, Obama would have been required to file applications with the US State Department and follow the legal procedures to become a naturalized citizen in the United States, when he returned from Indonesia.

    The Indonesian citizenship law was designed to prevent apatride (stateless) or bipatride (dual citizenship). Indonesia regulations recognize neither apatride nor bipatride citizenship. Since Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship neither did the US, Hague Convention of 1930.

  24. j.w Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:12 am
    Dude, what about the alleged adoption by his step-dad? Also, I have been trying to find yhis in Corsi’s book but can’t. Are you aware of a law (back in 1961) that prevents automatic U.S. citizenship if your mom does not meet the age requirement of 18 or 19?
  25. cloud Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:18 am
    J Galt Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:11 am

    Under the Indonesian adoption law, once adopted by an Indonesian citizen, the adoption severs the child’s relationship to the birth parents, and the adopted child is given the same status as a natural child (Indonesian Constitution, Article 2)

    …………………………………………………

    Thank you. Explains it all very nicely. Obama is a constitutional expert, so why does he not present his case as to why he is still eligible? Rhetorical!

  26. J Galt Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:23 am
    This is the reference to an age requirement, relevant if Obama was born in Kenya.
    Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) See Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship By a Child Born Abroad (hat tip: 21stCenturyThinker, at FreeRepublic.com.)
  27. cloud Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:24 am
    J Galt

    You did it again. You are quick!

  28. J Galt Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:38 am
    Law Number 62 Year 1958 on Citizenship rules out the possibility of dual nationality for Indonesian citizens. Indonesia’s intolerance of dual nationality is rooted in the insecurity that resulted from Mao Zedong’s declaration that all ethnic Chinese the world over were Chinese citizens. Fearing the consequences of having some two and a half million people who would be citizens of both Indonesia and China, Indonesia reached an agreement with China in 1955 to outlaw dual nationality and force Indonesians of Chinese origin to choose a single citizenship. This was reinforced in the 1958 Citizenship Law, still in force today, which states that anyone who acquires Indonesian nationality must renounce any previous nationality, and that any Indonesian who takes on another nationality loses their Indonesian citizenship. But with the world becoming ever smaller, relationships and marriages that cross national boundaries are becoming commonplace. This calls into question the justification for denying the children of these marriages their birthright––that is, the citizenships of both their father and their mother.

    Why is dual nationality deemed so undesirable? Here we attempt to address some of the anxieties that frequently surround this issue.

    What is dual nationality or dual citizenship?

    Most countries use the terms ‘nationality’ and ‘citizenship’ interchangeably1. There are several ways to become a citizen: by being born within the territory of that country (ius soli); because one or both of your parents is a citizen of that country (ius sanguinis); or by being naturalized (when a foreign citizen applies for and is granted citizenship in a second country). Citizenship can also be acquired through adoption. Different countries apply different principles: Indonesian citizenship laws are based on the principle of ius sanguinis (but only through the father), while the US applies ius soli. In practice, most countries apply some combination of both principles. Almost all countries allow for the acquisition of citizenship by naturalization, but the requirements vary greatly from country to country.

    Dual nationality occurs when a person is a citizen of two (or more) countries. This can happen if your parents are from different countries; or if you are born in a country that applies ius soli while your parents have a different nationality; or if you naturalize in one country but retain your original citizenship at the same time. Most countries in the world either allow, or at least do not absolutely prohibit, dual nationality2. Indonesia is one of a minority of countries that explicitly forbids its citizens to hold another nationality, and requires all naturalized citizens to renounce their original nationality.

    Foreigners who marry Indonesians are not entitled to stay in Indonesia permanently, they are not entitled to own property here, and they are not automatically entitled to work here. Why don’t foreign spouses just become Indonesian citizens?

    Because if they do, they have to give up their original nationality. Although most people who marry Indonesians and settle in Indonesia no longer have any ‘political’ allegiance to their country of origin, it is very difficult for them to reject the nationality, culture and heritage that is implied by citizenship. In many cases, giving up one’s nationality also means denying their children the right to that nationality.

    In practical terms, if a person gives up their original nationality it may restrict their ability to travel to their country of origin where they still have family. It may also affect their property and inheritance rights or pension or insurance claims there.

    Moreover, Indonesia is one of the few countries that does not offer the foreign spouses of its citizens a ‘fast track’ to citizenship. A foreign woman married to an Indonesian man may apply for naturalization within the first year of marriage, but has to renounce her original citizenship. After that she is subject to the same rules as any other foreigner. There is no equivalent dispensation for foreign men married to Indonesian women.
    http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:h_9KW0kh2QEJ:www.aliansipelangi.org/e-dual-nationalities-apab.doc+dual+citizenship+hague+Convention+of+1930+indonesia&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us&client=firefox-a

  29. WILLIAM Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:45 am
    Don’t know if this has been listed before, but if you want to think about BHO’s socialist plans for the “New Amreica” watch these…

    www DOT youtube DOT com/watch?v=491_5WxfcgI&feature=related

    www DOT youtube DOT com/watch?v=sQXcImQfubM

    Get these out and around.

  30. meg Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 4:11 am
    Oh, Historian why don’t you answer the question so many of us have and one I have asked several times in these postings:

    How can someone who would not pass an FBI, Secret Service or CIA security clearnace for a job become the POTUS? By the way, I am very aware of what goes into these clearances and there is no doubt that Sen. Obama would not pass. How could Americans vote for someone not capable of passing the security clearance?

  31. Ron Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 4:15 am
    Look people,

    The fact that API says they’ve passed on a tape of Michelle Obama, and tha fact that somehow between their claim here and Berg’s claim that the tape is actually in the native tongue and is presumably the grandmother raises questions.

    Actually, it raises answers. There is no MO tape. Just a bunch of conceptually abtract citizenship issues garbled in Swahili–or whatever.

    How in Sam Hill did an elderly woman in a foreign language get confused with MO?

    Opportunity.

    -R

  32. you Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 4:31 am
    That’s how he was able to travel to Pakistan in 1981. Americans couldn’t travel there unless they were govt. Obama stayed for 3 weeks. Doing what? Visiting whom? How did he get in?
  33. j.w Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 4:32 am
    Hey, Ron, there are TWO tapes in Berg’s possession. One is of BO’s Kenyan G-ma, claiming how proud she is of him including the fact that she was, “in the delivery room when he was born”. The other tape is the one that was presumably transferred to Berg via Fedex from this website “owner”, Mr. Korir.

    Thanks for the earlier info, J Galt.

  34. j.w Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 4:36 am
    I can’t recall if it was CIA or FBI or both, but Berg made reference to the idea/fact that he knows of individuals from these aformentioned agencys who KNOW ALL about BO and his lack of credentials and can DO NOTHING about it! I am paraphrasing, but you can hear it for yourself on the Michael Savage interview. If anyone here wants info about this case, you can get quite a bit there, btw.
  35. KL Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 5:12 am
    HistorianDude Says:
    October 25, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    Indonesia cannot take away an American’s citizenship.
    _________________________

    You are right and they didn’t! Stanley Ann Soetoro gave it (American citizenship) up for herself and her son (for whom she had legal authority to act over since he is a minor)!! Indonesia didn’t allow for dual citizenship. Stanley Ann chose what she wanted for herself and her son. Can’t take it back now.

    Stanley Ann renounced and they became expatriated from the USA. She married the Indonesian man, Lolo, and he adopted her son, which proves her intention to remain in Indonesia for her lifetime. The adoption proves he intended to raise and become legally responsible for this child.

    Sorry Bud, game over.

  36. KL Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 5:25 am
    HistorianDude Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 2:40 am

    Meg you are wrong.

    A person cannot surrender anybody’s citizenship but their own.
    _______________________________

    A person cannot surrender something (U.S. citizenship) they’ve never had. Obama was born in Kenya.

    http://www.usafricaonline.com/barackbama08usafrica.gif

  37. Todd1 Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 5:44 am
    You need to watch this video! Finally someone in the media asking some really tough questions.

    Watch Biden squirm!

  38. prohvac Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 5:45 am
    Todd1 what video?
  39. Todd1 Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 5:46 am
    Sorry! Here’s the video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQXcImQfubM

  40. HistorianDude Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 5:47 am
    Meg asked:

    “How can someone who would not pass an FBI, Secret Service or CIA security clearnace for a job become the POTUS?”

    Well first off, Because they were freely elected by the people of the United States of America.

    That said, there is no evidence that Obama would not pass an FBI, Secret Service or CIA security clearance for a job.

    | By the way, I am very aware of what goes into these clearances and there is no doubt that Sen. Obama would not pass.”
    Nonsense. You must have no idea what you are talking about. I myself held a Top Secret Clearance as a Maintenance and Assembly Team Chief for 2 Nuclear Warhead detachments when I was 21 years old. My mother was a Mafia princess, and I had no problem getting the necessary clearance.

    There is little doubt that Barack Obama would pass such an investigation.

    How could Americans vote for someone not capable of passing the security clearance?
    Ain’t democracy a great thing? Why are you so anxious to derail it with a judicial coup de tat?

  41. prohvac Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 5:48 am
    Thanks Todd
  42. HistorianDude Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 5:56 am
    KL wrote:

    “You are right and they didn’t! Stanley Ann Soetoro gave it (American citizenship) up for herself and her son (for whom she had legal authority to act over since he is a minor)!! Indonesia didn’t allow for dual citizenship. Stanley Ann chose what she wanted for herself and her son. Can’t take it back now.”

    Two problems with that assertion.

    1st, there is no evidence that Stanley ever gave up her own citizenship, let alone her sons.

    Second, it is established case law that she never had the power to give up anybody’s citizenship but her own. I refer you to the Supreme Court Decision in Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967.

    “Stanley Ann renounced and they became expatriated from the USA. She married the Indonesian man, Lolo, and he adopted her son, which proves her intention to remain in Indonesia for her lifetime. The adoption proves he intended to raise and become legally responsible for this child.

    There is no evidence that Stanley ever renounced her citizenship. There is no evidence that Lolo ever adopted Barack. So… both your claims here appear to be figments of your collective imagination.

    Sorry Bud, game over.

    You’re playing a game?

  43. Tennessean Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 6:05 am
    Historian sez:

    “there is no evidence that Obama would not pass an FBI, Secret Service or CIA security clearance for a job.”

    So you think his relationship with Ayers, Rezcko, Wright, Odinga wouldn’t affect it?

  44. HistorianDude Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 6:12 am
    I am certain that his relationships with Ayers, Rezcko, Wright and Odinga would not affect it.
  45. Barry Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 6:19 am
    actually he never received the Obama’s wife tape and dont hold your breath waiting for it.
  46. Iglesias Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 6:19 am
    intersting that republican wingnuts are still here wasting time as early votes continue. LOL!!!
  47. Iglesias Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 6:20 am
    GoP bloggers are shytting in their pants like hell. 9 days and they shall waink in their beds. LOL!!!
  48. Barry Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 6:30 am
    Actually no. I know McCain is going to win. Go ahead, put your faith in the polls but be prepared for a shock of your life.
  49. Barry Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 6:32 am
    A little story about the polls from a pollster herself…

    http://virginiavirtucon.wordpress.com/

  50. Chris Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 7:17 am
    We all owe Judge Surrick our deepest gratitude for his commitment to TRUTH and his devotion to the REAL AMERICANS in this country. It’s clear the Judge was extremely FAIR and totally reasonable in deciding to dismiss Berg’s silly wingnut lawsuit.

    Way to go Judge Surrick!!!!

    If I’m not mistaken, the last time Berg went to the Supreme Court was to fight his lawsuit which demanded that 3 Supreme Court Justices remove themselves from the bench. I’m sure they will be happy to see him again, what a reunion for all these old chums!

  51. Iglesias Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 7:32 am
    heheh. am amazed that GoP wingnuts are still thinikng grandpapa-senile is “winning”. LOL!!! maybe in lala-land. LOL!!!
  52. bob Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 7:51 am
    Melissa you need to wake up also when you go to vote just remember what you said your son has to do to get a job at McDonalds your vote for nader is just another vote for Obama you need to vote for McCain even if you dont like him to help keep Obama out of the white house so wake up
  53. joe Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 8:39 am
    CLOUD, CLOUD, CLOUD. You have lost your credibility. Your posts about the supposed michele rant tapes were obviously bogus.

    Now you have lost all credibility, as has this site.

    and indeed now for sure, Mcain has lost the election

  54. Nanometer Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 9:02 am
    GoP is going down in defeat and bursting open. McPalin is losing big. Why bother!!! Let them rot in hell.
  55. MAXWELL Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 10:16 am
    To all who are discussing Security Clearances for
    Candidates for POTUS…

    Give some thought to the qualifications vs. background of the candidates
    of the CPUSA or DSA.

    My understanding (from conversations with FBI agent) of the “philosophy” is that “the people” are responsible for electing the candidates of their choice; and FBI, nor others, interfere with the process… in other words – NO ONE INTERFERES or qualifies the candidates from the security stand point.!

    Also covered, the congress, each newly elected member is granted a Secret clearance. I presume the same applies to POTUS and VP, but cannot swear to that.

    But, still, the interesting caveat of “Need to Know” rears its head behind each and evry security clearance! That is what may limit the release of ceertains information to the POTUS… in other words, he could be severly hampered in carrying out some of his duties.

    All of the above means THE CONSTITUTION IS WORKING in that regard.

    Exercise your right to vote for the candidate of your choice and perhaps
    you will not even have to worry about these issues..

  56. MAXWELL Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 10:22 am
    FAIR AND BALANCED IN THE U. S. A.

    Barack Obama’s campaign killed all interviews with a Florida TV station after Sen. Joe Biden, the Democratic vice presidential nominee, faced tough and critical questions from a reporter at the Orlando station, the Orlando Sentinel reported .

    During a satellite video Thursday, WFTV’s Barbara West quoted Karl Marx and asked Biden how Obama’s comment to “Joe the Plumber,” about spreading the wealth wasn’t being Marxist.

    “Are you joking?,” Biden asked.

    West replied, “No.”

    www DOT youtube DOT com/watch?v=sQXcImQfubM

    Later in the interview West questioned Biden about his comments that if Obama wins the election next month, he would be tested early on as president and wanted to know if Biden was implying America was no longer the world’s leading power.

    “I don’t know who’s writing your questions,” Biden asked her.

    The Obama camp then killed a WFTV interview with Biden’s wife Jill, according to an Orlando Sentinel blog.

    “This cancellation is non-negotiable, and further opportunities for your station to interview with this campaign are unlikely, at best for the duration of the remaining days until the election,” wrote Laura K. McGinnis, Central Florida communications director for the Obama campaign, according to the Sentinel.

  57. Realist0112 Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 12:02 pm
    It is so obious that Obama and Biden control the MSM and if some reporter that may have some courage to ask an unscripted question these two shake in their boots. I guess because they did not have the time to prepare the answers.

    They rather talk about Sarah Palin’s cloths,her accent,her hair, her glasses, how great she looks. BUT NO ISSUES.

    The MEDIA is a joke.

    I read an aricle that mentioned a reporter from CNN apologized because in an interview he had purposlly twisted and misscuoted Sarah Palin. Now the retraction in the NY Times was burried in the middle pages and it was a very small article. By the way the only reason I read it, because it was in one of the conservative publications.

    If that would had happened with Biden or THE EMPEROR OBAMA it would have been headline news in all the MSM channels and newspapers.

    My Thirteen year old daughter has more credibility that the MSM jokers. I am done with NBC,CBS,ABC and CNN months ago. It is so obvious it gets you sick.

  58. Maria Ashot Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 12:42 pm
    Good morning, happy Sunday, and THANK YOU, especially to Mr Korir, Cloud, J Galt and Maxwell.

    Thank you also to the people who call attention to the brilliant ministry of the Hon. Dr. James David Manning (ATLAH). When the paid media won’t do their jobs, we must be grateful for every great soul & aware mind that fearlessly speaks the truth.

    HistorianDude, why is it so difficult to imagine that other countries have laws & policies different from your own here in the USA? And that those laws & policies actually matter — especially while you are on foreign soil? Remember Midnight Express?) Obama’s father, who is known to have work for Indonesia’s secret police — meaning he was an authoritarian and committed Indonesian steeped in the political traditions of those quite frightful times (when torture & suppression were the norm) — is also a committed Muslim. “Obama’s” sister, active in his campaign, is this man’s daughter, and a Muslim.

    Never mind that Cloud & J Galt have EXHAUSTIVELY (for the umpteenth time) gone over the intricacies of US law when it comes to the matter of citizenship & ELIGIBILITY for citizenship & also ELIGIBILITY FOR THE PRESIDENCY: how about just the fact that for the first time in history we have a man whose father was not a US citizen by any stretch of the imagination (unless his father was Frank Marshall Davis, a SALARIED EMPLOYEE of the Communist Party and the Soviet Kremlin — and Putin can probably confirm that with their records, AND MAYBE ALREADY HAS) — and who then, after being born in KENYA, being mysteriously “abandoned: by this Kenyan father (though not, evidently by the ‘father’s’ grandmother, only don’t you think he would have at least put her in an apartment with PLUMBING, in Nairobi or Mombasa, if he knew that SHE WAS HIS GRANDMOTHER? Wouldn’t you do that?) — after a brief stay in the US is adopted as a minor by an Indonesian GOVERNMENT OPERATIVE, automatically revoking his US status.

    And yes, those of us with children know there is a good reason why the law recognizes as valid decisions made by parents on behalf of their minor children. It may have been sad to return Elian Gonzalez to his father in Cuba, but it was the moral & lawful thing to do: PARENTS MATTER IN THE LIVES OF MINORS.

    (Which is probably why your idol’s favorite grantee, William Ayers, encouraged children to “Kill Your Parents!|” And we have that in full Dolby, as you know.)

    How much money has “Obama” paid YOU from the Annenberg Foundation, HistorianDude?

    OK, so “Obama” returns to the US because now his Indonesian step-dad has a biological daughter of his own & is probably tired of being responsible for another man’s child. Some people are that way… Barry’s mother seems perfectly OK with prolonged separation from her young firstborn son, and palms him off on her parents.

    DO THEY RESTORE HIS CITIZENSHIP? DOES THE MOTHER IN INDONESIA GO TO THE US EMBASSY & ASK FOR A PASSPORT? DO THE GRANDPARENTS WHO CARED ABOUT A BIRTH RECORD IN THE PAPER BOTHER ABOUT A SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER? A US PASSPORT?

    When the grandparents get tired of their grandson being at home with them, Grandpa takes him over to spend time with his old buddy from Kansas, Frank. Frank Marshall Davis. The same man Grandpa had Barry’s mother meet during the timeframe when she conceived little Barry.

    WHY? This all seems highly natural to you? In those years, for an older American from Kansas to be so close to an employee of the Communist Party of the USSR that he actually brought over BOTH his daughter and then HER SON to this man’s home, for… “mentoring”? Indoctrination? Poetry lessons? Porn readings? (If you read FMD’s book “sexual autobiography” “Sex Rebel” — which can be found in extensive excerpts online — you will learn that FMD is a pretty skillful writer, a man who profoundly hates women and believes they enjoy being raped and beaten (especially white women), a man who took pride in extreme sex with the wives & women of US MILITARY PERSONNEL, and a man who enjoyed debauching little girls, preferably white little girls.)

    Frank Marshall Davis is in fact a follower both of Karl Marx (and Lenin, and Trotsky) and also of the Marquis De Sade.

    This man was CLOSE TO “OBAMA’S” MATERAL GRANDFATHER AND ALSO TO “OBAMA’S” OWN MOTHER, AND ALSO TO “OBAMA” HIMSELF. The candidate-who-shouldn’t-have-started-this CALLS THIS HAPPY PORNOGRAPHER MARXIST HIS “MENTOR.”

    So were “Obama’s” father, and his maternal granfdather, perhaps members of FMD’s inner circle? Which circle? The ’swinging’ circle? Or the Marxist circle? Or the Soviet employee circle? We know the daughter of this white Grandpa was a militant atheist who was happy to trade life in the US for life in Kenya, life in Indonesia… Even though those countries, to which she had no ancestral connection, were troubled places at the time.

    Now, in a regular person maybe all this is just an exotic and intersting life path.

    BUT THE MAN WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, HistorianDude!

    THE INAUGURAL ADDRESS HAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN! Probably by George Soros and the Grunwalds. Mandy can fix George’s spelling for him. Because the people who work for Soros in NY are not native English speakers, either: I’ve met them and know their writing. Not the best, honestly. (By the way, the Communist system ties around Soros, and the ties to politically active fringe groups all over Eastern Europe, not to mention the criminal syndicate known as “the government of Ukraine” SELLING ARMS IN AFRICA are quite fascinating… Such marvelous friends “Obama” has! You can look forward to entertaining them all, at taxpayer expense, as they plan the Inaugural — they’ve done the speech, now they’re working on the parties.)

    “Obama” can say what he wants: these people know NOTHING about “finding talent.” That’s just another whopper of his.

    Look, if “Obama’s father” had not been from Kenya, but from Mexico, and the rest of the story were the same, would he be the Candidate today?

    Of course not! Mexico: dusty, poor, Mexican. Illegitimate child of a Mexican who disappears, born in Tijuana, step-dad from indonesia? Or Cuba? It wouldn’t be the issue of the citizenship: it would never happen! And we all know that. Those of us who respect and love the Hispanic community in the US, as I do, we know the score perfectly well.

    But KENYA! A British Commonwealth state! A country visited regularly by the Queen, where her grandsons go hunting, where they speak English better than many do in America: that could work… It sounds so cool…. After all that recent hoopla around the Lion King, “the circle of life”? Africa’s cool!

    But could the illegitimate child of a CHINESE Foreign student From CHINA have had “Obama’s” chance to be the Democratic Nominee, all the other details being the same? Even if he were, say, from Taiwan, and not Communist China?

    WHY NOT?

    Because it makes sense to any country to have laws that prevent people without IDEAL QUALIFICATIONS from becoming the head of their state. That’s why neither Kissinger, nor Schwarzenegger, nor Soros himself, could ever run for that office.

    And it is to safeguard these standard, sacrosanct principles that we will not simply stand by and accept the public enthronement of the man Oprah proclaimed to be “the Chosen One”. Because it takes more than the endorsement of a daytime TV personality to QUALIFY for the Presidency of the United States of America.

    And for the good of the world, many, many people all over the world — decent, sober people of different creeds and backgrounds — will not simply allow the foundations of the US government and American society to be subverted to make some chumps happy.

    Because it matters to everyone on earth that the planet have a chance to survive without any more tyrants appearing at the head of great powers. ESPECIALLY WHEN THE ECONOMY IS TANKING. Correction: HAS TANKED.

    We need good people everywhere to work together to bring sanity & decency back into the world’s affairs.

  59. JOE THE GEEK Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 1:28 pm
    OBAMA’S MOTHER STAYED IN PAKISTAN FOR 5 YEARS

    From *Daily Waqt* – published from Lahore, Pakistan, Sunday August 31, 2008:
    http://iaoj.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/obamas-mother-stayed-in-pakistan-for-5-years/

    Lahore (Pervez Al-Islam): The mother of American Presidential hopeful, Barack Obama, Mrs. Ann Dunham lived in Pakistan for five years. During this time, Barack Obama also visited his mother and stayed for a few months. Mrs. Ann Dunham was hired as a consultant by the Asian Development Bank for Pakistan Agricultural Development Bank’s Gujranwalla Agricultural Development Program. This program began in 1987 and ended in 1992. Mrs. Ann Dunham monitored the funds received for this program from the Asian Development Bank and trained the Mobile Credit Officers of the Agricultural Bank. This program was controlled from the Gujranwalla Regional Office. She stayed for five years in the Hilton International Hotel (now Avari Hotel), Lahore. She traveled daily from Lahore to Gujranwalla. When Barack Obama visited Pakistan, he stayed in the same hotel. After returning from Pakistan, she died from cancer within three years.

  60. HappyVermonter Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 2:05 pm
    As someone who has a held “Secret” security clearence in the past, I can offer this insight as to why Obama WOULD NOT pass an FBI backgound check.
    The BC (background check) last for 2-5 weeks in which time your neighbors, your friends, your family, your work associates, your professors – basically everyone you have been in contact with over your lifetime – are all interviewed by specialists in research and behaviour. All the gathered information is documented, analyzed and scrutinized for discrepancies and patterns of behaviour that would warrant further investigation.
    Of course there is more to than this, but – with what all that is known as fact about Obama (even from his own writings) – his radical work in Chicago and his association with anti-government preacher Wright alone would place Obama’s file in the “denied” pile.
  61. Paul Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 2:29 pm
    Well said Maria (#58). I would also like to say that we can discuss Obama’s abominations ad nauseum and have nothing for the effort. I want to remind everyone who reads this post that the presidential election this year in America is but a small part of a larger spiritual battle being waged on earth. If you look to the tapes of MO or any other “evidence” of the evil that is propagating the Obama campaign as “the” means to bringing this evil to account, then I say that your faith is misplaced. It is naive to think that anything other than prayer to Jesus can stop this anti-christ wannabe. So I humbly ask those of you who read this post to look in your heart and pray for the God of heaven’s intervention in this election and the defeat of barack hussein obama.
  62. cloud Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:09 pm
    Maria Ashot Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 12:42 pm
    ………………………………

    Maria, You my dear good woman have done more for this site than I or most could. You are a fabulous contributor and an excellent communicator. I appreciate your posts. You wrote such a tiny post though. just kidding!

    Rev Manning is a hoot. Love to hear him speak!

    Glad to see you here today.

  63. Susan Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:23 pm
    Thanks for Todd’s post #39 and Maxwell’s #56…. addtionaly, this is on Fox web..

    http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/25/obama-campaign-cuts-interviews-florida-tv-station/

  64. Susan Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:24 pm
    additionally.. oops
  65. cloud Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:31 pm
    Paul, you wrote

    I want to remind everyone who reads this post that the presidential election this year in America is but a small part of a larger spiritual battle being waged on earth.

    ……………………………………………….

    The consciousness of the planet is becoming fuller and brighter. Yes, there is a spiritual awakening (I am not contributing that to any religion BTW). Moreover, Americans have lived for decades with democracy and free expression and thinking (for the most part). They will not stand for having their rights removed so easily. Good always trumps not so good. The positive forces are too great to allow travesties from the past to prevail.

    Guess I woke up on the spiritual side this AM. Well, it is Sunday!

  66. meg Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:39 pm
    Thank Happy Vermonter!!!! My friend who worked on a government job had to get Secret Service Clerance and let me tell you that depending on the security level the inverstigation can go on even longer. I am a friend of 20 years (no joke) and I was investigated even though my friend moved to VIrginia several years ago.
    Barack Obama would not pass because of Ayers, Khalidi, Redsco and Odinga.
    Our country is willing to vote for someone who can’t pass a security clearnace and not a national hero is honorable? have we lost our minds?
    I in no way want to compare Obama to Hitler – Hitler was beyond evil, but the German people fell for him because of economic strife and his great oratory skills. This mentality is scary and I wonder if this is not a similar transfixion of the American people…
  67. Nanometer Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 3:53 pm
    useless republican BS and wingnuts. you think with 9 days to go, some FRIVILOUS LAWSUIT will gain any attention or stop the impending GOP electoral defeat? while you waste time and energy and attention on som useless LAWSUIT and “tapes”, the Dems continue marching strong. No wonder GoPer is so dysfunctional. The bush years have destryoed the fabric of the Gopers. thank god we INDEPENDENTS have woken up and are keeping our distrance from Gopers. i aint voting this year but even if i was, i would never vote for a McPalin or repubican ticket for next 8 years. Only Huckabee or Romney could have changed my mind. Not a McPalin, old, senile and illiterate.
  68. Maria Ashot Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 4:36 pm
    Thank you, Cloud. What a beautiful name…

    Thank you, “Joe the Geek” for the VITAL & fascinating detail about the Pakistan connection.

    Is someone beginning to understand why it was so important for some to keep Musharraf in power for as long as they tried? No matter how many people suffered, how much heroin was being produced in Afghanistan (in provinces under Nato’s control, shamefully!)? At the cost of the life of Benazir Bhutto? Not to mention thousands and thousands of innocents?

    Benazir & the Bhuttos were not perfect human beings, but they were true to their people and their land. I remember her from Harvard, although we never personally met. I remember her intelligence, her obvious charisma, her remarkable courage and the sadness that clung to her person like an ethereal veil… She died fearlessly, sacrificing herself for her country and for the Truth about Everything: to bring the truth out — and now, as “Joe the Geek” has discovered, the truth spills out, pieces of a huge jigsaw puzzle that we can all now begin to see, and that looks unfortunately like “Obama”’s personal logo of Planet Earth with his name stamped accross it.

    Benazir was willing to die, for her family’s honor & duty to their ancestral home, for their culture, but also for the greater cause of freedom as a principle, and for TRUTH. JUST THE TRUTH, just that much alone, whatever it might be, the ugly with the beautiful: but the truth.

    Solzhenitsyn’s single most important and compelling work is not the GULag trilogy (although that remains incredibly important to understanding the 20th c. and how an entire country gets turned into a slave camp). It was “LIVE NOT THE LIE!” — an essay that urged people simply to stop giving life to lies, to deception and untruths. That was all he begged for: an end to equivocation, ideological oppression and falsification.

    In a strange way, it worked. It became the foundation for Gorbachev’s Glasnost policy. GLASNOST means, basically, VOCALIZATION: telling the truth. Telling everything “as is.” Speaking. Publishing. Ending the oppressive culture of “not saying certain things”. It was key to helping end the Communist partocracy in the entire Soviet bloc. And when Gorbachev recently told a US journalist “You need some glasnost yourselves in the US”, the journalist blinked. She did not grasp that Glasnost is not a culturally bound thing, something “Russian” or whatever. It is about doing what we are doing today: speaking openly about the lies that are threatening not only our precious freedoms, but our very survival…

    It is about getting the paid — affluent — media TO DO THEIR JOBS! Or get out of the chair, take off the mike, and let someone else do it for you…

    A United States led by a cabal of deceivers that yoke together Communism and Jihadism — the ideology of exterminating “class enemies” with the ideology of terror & assassination “in the name of Allah” OR “in the name of THE ONE” — a cabal that uses the globalized media and “free trade” as tools to first zombify and then beggar and enslave the average family — a cabal that will call policies of selective enforced abortion and euthanasia “health care” in the interest of an “endangered climate” — a cabal that uses millions of unemployed, fanaticized young Muslim men as the cannon fodder for its wars — that is even now sending powerful weapons from Ukraine to Africa so that they can be in position for “Obama’s” “victory lap” — THIS CABAL WILL WASTE NO TIME IMPLEMENTING ITS AGENDA.

    In other words, fight hard, don’t dare lose — and have a plan, too. That’s my advice to all of you out there, that I love, admire and respect, and pray for: my Brothers-and-Sisters-in-Arms.

    Yes, I know we have to address the climate crisis. I have been a Kyoto proponent since day 1. I personally lobbied Putin to finally sign Kyoto. It was a tough fight: both Bush-41, and Clinton, in sync with all kinds of old Bolshevik dinosaurs, were pushing the Putin government very hard not to accept Kyoto.

    Why? BECAUSE IT BENEFITS THE PROFIT MARGIN OF HUGE CORPORATIONS NOT TO HAVE TO USE CLEAN TECHNOLOGY.

    And it is above all because Bill failed us all on Kyoto that I could not, would not support the Clintons, and never will.

    The climate issues are real ones; I first learned of them at Harvard in 1975 from the great Astronomy & History of Science Professor, Owen Gingrich. But then I learned even more about them — rather terrifying things that were then still kept mostly out of the public awareness — from some of the greatest Russian scientists at the Academy of Sciences — people who were committed anti-Bolshevists, fighting their oppressors from within (some of them died because of their heroism and resistance to the Communist Party) — and they knew the damage that was being done by criminal industrialists (which is not to say by every capitalist entrepreneur or industry: you know what I am saying) all over the world.

    Corruption, greed, deceit, narcissism and hatred of “the little guy” have brought the planet to the brink of actual destruction. you watch a movie like BLOOD DIAMOND and you think of the people around Bush & Cheney? Of course. BUT ALSO OF THE PEOPLE AROUND “OBAMA.” Because, in the stratosphere of the hyper-rich, they sit at one table and drink from a common source.

    The Bushes and the Bin Ladens are family friends. “Obama” and Cheney are cousins. Bush & Kerry are both members of “Skull and Bones.” Watch “the Good Shepherd,” learn a few things about Skull and Bones…

    Watch “the Emperors’ Club” — another brilliant film — learn something about the schools these people went to and how they think and operate in the world.

    You think “Obama” is an outsider? Read Joe-the-Geek’s contribution: the man has been hand-picked, developed and trained for a long, long time… The rich idiots who helped him actually believe they will control him. That’s part of the problem.

    It never works that way. Napoleon, Lenin, Hitler, Stalin: they always turn on the ones that brought them to power, on their closest allies. they get rid of them first, seize their assets, and then set in motion the Great Meatgrinder of Death…

    Have you ever asked yourself why today’s Marxist Lefties hate Stalin but won’t say a bad word about Lenin? It’s because Stalin killed so many Communists — after he was done killing Nazis and generic Russians…

    But Lenin they all love. Lenin only killed “the class enemy”: the nobles, the landowners, the rich, the educated, the clergy, the college faculty and schoolteachers, the merchants, the prosperous farmers (called ‘kulaks’), the military elites and rank-and-file who would not serve him, THEIR CHILDREN AND INFANTS (there are detailed records and even film of mass exterminations of children and infants from “class enemy” families)… The Marxists don’t mind that one bit.

    TO THIS DAY, Russians are afraid to touch Lenin’s corpse in his mausoleum because they have been brainwashed into thinking that if they do, some international cabal will immediately nuke them. Just for touching the rotting waxworks that remains from “THE ONE.” From… that One.

    Many Americans have been themselves persuaded, from Cold War propaganda, that “Russia” and “Russians” are some kind of different species to begin with — that whatever happened there could never happen here. Serious scholars of history of course know that is not at all true. They know there is much in common between these two countries and peoples. Ronald Reagan knew it, and talked of it, with Nancy, when he visited. He actually bothered to read books like S. Massie’s “Land of the Firebird” and EDUCATED himself about “America’s enemy.” Reagan understood many things.

    He would never have allowed this kind of catastrophic crisis to engulf the country he loved so much, from so many fronts — and then to actually endanger its most sacred processes, the very foundations of the American Civilization.

    Paul, I agree with you that God would be the supreme Force to lift this planet, and all of us, out of this terrible danger that we all face. Prayer OF COURSE works! And it is important to get as many people as understand prayer to pray, as possible. To pray simply, without complicating their heads with doctrinal issues, just to ask, fervently, sincerely, as a child asks Mother or Father — with that kind of simple blind trust — CAN YOU HELP ME? WON’T YOU HELP ME? PLEASE? I PROMISE TO BE GOOD… (Promising to be good never hurts when praying.)

    But it is also important to understand that GOD WORKS THROUGH PEOPLE. Actual human beings, rolling up their sleeves, making phone calls, sharing news, VOTING, helping each other: those are vital actions that DO NOT GET IN THE WAY OF PRAYER AT ALL. You can pray and make phone calls at the same time, cant you? You can cook a meal for someone who is volunteering to help stop “Obama,” right? You can get the word out to decent folks who haven’t voted yet?

    let me tell you one last thing, from working as a Polling Place Inspector in a bunch of elections in California now. On Election Day itself, we have books, of course, which list everyone from the precinct (neighborhood) who is registered to vote, and also the absentee voters who are “mailing in” or bringing in votes. We list, also, the Early Voters who are already known to have voted.

    And still. at the end of the day, there are HUNDREDS of eligible, registered voters who have not bothered to show up. In EVERY PRECINCT. There are boxes and boxes of UNUSED ballots. Sure, some have died, some have moved away — maybe 10% of the ones who didn’t come in.

    TOO MANY PEOPLE NEVER BOTHER. It’s a disgrace, and it may well be why an entire nation (and possibly the world) will be punished. I know people who don’t show up because they don’t want to be summoned for jury duty. i know people who are afraid someone will attempt to collect an unpaid obligation. They have a stack of unpaid parking tickets, so they don’t vote. THOSE ARE ALL STUPID REASONS NOT TO TRY TO SAVE THE FREEDOMS PEOPLE HAVE DIED FOR.

    Whether you pray or not, if you can get just 3 or 4 people who are on the precinct rolls to SHOW UP AND VOTE FOR MCCAIN ON NOV. 4 BEFORE POLLS CLOSE, you can help prevent the next crazy dictator from taking over the country, and then attempting to take over the planet by starting World War Three.

    Two days ago, there were headlines that Iranian military were preparing a pre-emptive nuclear attack on Israel.It must be because some think “Obama” is already the US President. Let’s say they did such a crazy thing. What would happen next? Israel would hit back, igniting the entire Middle East. It burns “pretty”: there’s plenty of oil there.

    Oil prices go through the roof.

    Guess which side “Obama” is on. No, really, can you guess? Remember the shell game on the corner?

    I can tell you which side he ISN’T on: YOURS.

    Sure, McCain sang “Bomb Iran…” and that scared me. Then again, McCain knows war. Which is the main reason I think he will try every smart thing possible TO AVOID WAR — war with Russia, war with China, war with Pakistan or Iran or anyone.

    “Obama” works for Himself. He doesn’t care, so long as he doesn’t personally have to fight. A Big War allows him to take over the planet (he thinks) make himself and his Chosen Few Friends richer than anyone who has ever lived, redistribute the wealth and in the process end such offensive concepts as Christianity, rights for women, the age of consent, the criminalization of rape or paedophilia… Stuff like that.

    Dr. Manning says it beautifully when he proclaims: “I’m standing for Christmas!” You betcha!

    Me, too.

  69. HistorianDude Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 5:40 pm
    Maria Ashot askes:

    “HistorianDude, why is it so difficult to imagine that other countries have laws & policies different from your own here in the USA? And that those laws & policies actually matter — especially while you are on foreign soil? Remember Midnight Express?) Obama’s father, who is known to have work for Indonesia’s secret police — meaning he was an authoritarian and committed Indonesian steeped in the political traditions of those quite frightful times (when torture & suppression were the norm) — is also a committed Muslim. “Obama’s” sister, active in his campaign, is this man’s daughter, and a Muslim.”

    I remember Midnight Express very well. In fact, I was stationed in Turkey as the M&A Team Leader in two nuclear warhead detachments at the time the movie came out. You are confused if you imagine it has any lesson to teach us regarding this discussion.

    Your comments here are baffling, at least from anyone who would claim to be a patriot. You are suggesting that American law is inferior to and subservient to Indonesian law when it comes to American citizenship. Of course I know that other countries have other laws and policies. And they must be ignored when considering American Citizenship. They are NOT our laws, so why would the US (or any sovereign nation) allow their laws to supersede ours? You are essentially arguing that any foreign nation can take away your American citizenship against your will.

    Why would you be okay with that?

    As to your rather clearly expressed fears of Indonesians, their secret police, Muslims, and Obama’s half sister…I am happy to allow you to wallow in a paranoia that I do not share. I only worry about real threats, not imaginary ones. Your rants are entertaining in a free association, frothing sort of way. But froth is mostly just air… as insubstantial as a breeze on the beach.

  70. cloud Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 5:43 pm
    HistorianDude… You must be a writer.
  71. HistorianDude Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 5:54 pm
    HappyVermonter…

    I trump your “Secret” security clearance with my “Top Secret” clearance combined with additional Nuclear Surety Clearances. As the tactical commander for two warhead assembly teams I was privy to the security clearance files for every one of my equally cleared soldiers and junior officers.

    You do not appear to have a clue beyond how long the process takes and who they talk you. You certainly are completely unaware of what the people responsible for granting clearances actually do with the information they have collected to assess the risk of granting the final clearance.

    I had soldiers with responsibility for nuclear warheads whose brothers and fathers were gang-bangers and convicted felons, who parents were illegal immigrants, who were conservative Republicans, who were liberal Democrats, and who were members of Puerto Rican secessionist organizations. My own mother was a Mafia Princess, and even as a West Point Cadet (yes, I am a graduate of the “trade school”) I regularly visited my own paternal aunt and godmother in prison.

    The bottom line is that we grant clearances to individuals… not to their relatives or acquaintances. There is little doubt in my own mind, based on what I know of his past acquaintances and family, that Barack Obama would sail through any FBI, Secret Service or CIA security clearance investigation.

  72. HistorianDude Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 5:59 pm
    Cloud…

    Yes. I am a writer. I will take your notice as a complement. Thank you.

  73. Nanometer Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 6:02 pm
    Susie,

    Intellgience? who gave us BUSH for 8 years? was it not the LOW INFORMATION VOTERs of the GoPer party? who allowed Bush to lead us into 2-useless wars, ran up the deficit, bankrupted the country, lost 2-million jobs, etc? was it not the GOPER low info voter? Like you and your Goper blogger ilk here!!! give me a break. America needs a break from your wingnutty type!!! For Good.

  74. MAXWELL Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 8:40 pm
    And good morning to you to, Maria Aschot. And Cloud. And Mr. Korir.

    To those of you who claim to know all there is to know about Secutiy Clearances,
    I must reveal myself to you. I was one of those guys who conducted your Background (BI) investigations. If you had a BC (Background Check) you probably had little more than a National Agency Check which covers only law enforcement from local police up to FBI.

    You see folks (now I insert a disclaimer) I did not adjudicate clearances, I conducted the interviews of your character references, other references which developed during the investigation, employers, teachers and anyone else who could ‘paint’ a picture of your:
    Loyalty, Integrity, Discretion, Morals and Character.

    Depending on the type of clearance your were requesting, the BI would be fairly shallow or very thorough and deep.

    The thing to be remembered here is that the POTUS, like members of congress, does necessarilly come under a BI for a clearance because he/she is an elected leader, elected by the people. That is the reason that we the people must make educated and well reasoned choices for our leaders. THIS IS NOT SECOND WORLD or some reality game.

    I later left counter intelligence and went on to the very un-glamorous world of human intelligence and had a TS clearance with a subtitle, like caveat (can’t remember what that is called), but the full title is even classified.

    But, the point is. When one receives a clearance, that level of clearance is according to the duties, materials, information that the proposed reciptient is expected to come into contact with.

    Anyone want to talk about clearances? I’ll tell you what I am able to.

    But, no one investigates the POTUS! One exception, Congress does in the event of impeachment.

  75. MAXWELL Says:
    October 26, 2008 at 8:41 pm
    By the way, the above was during the Cold War and Vietnam war.
  76. Brenda Says:
    October 27, 2008 at 12:20 am
    Maria…your writing is amazing…thought provoking and I who know how to pray am praying…or should I say…I am crying out for mercy…blessings and keep up the good work…Brenda
  77. Maria Ashot Says:
    October 27, 2008 at 2:30 am
    HistorianDude:

    First, don’t call me, or anyone here, “paranoid”. It is extremely easy to attach labels to people who may simply be operating from a different set of data points than you.

    Now is not the time, nor is this the place, for me to give you a run-down of some of the fascinating experiences and communications and experiences I have been privileged to have. My assessment of the “Obama” circle and its agenda is based on an in-depth analysis, from a professional, trained textual analysis — forensic textual analysis if you will — of his own writings, first and foremost.

    I process that analysis using a pretty decent and actually very dispassionate brain and correlate it with data inputs from very unusual people and sources that relatively few people have ever had the opportunity to “mine” — and even fewer had the skills, or time, or inclination to actually put together into a snapshot of the moment we find ourselves in.

    It does not take great effort to discover the influence of De Sade on the writings of Frank Marshall Davis. But it takes more than a cursory knowledge of De Sade to know he was not a ’sexual revolutionary” but indeed a SOCIAL SUBVERSIVE who helped set the stage for the French Revolution — a period of explosive savagery and anarchy that destroyed many more lives than those it initially targeted. (See the recent and still relevant movie, Danton.)

    I have heard Obama’s step-sister speak, and I have correlated her words with my own studies of the Qu’ran, and the Jihadist movement. (I first studied Islamic Civilization at Harvard, because I wanted to be informed.) I have had friends who married into families of Black Muslims from Chicago. I have lived in Berkeley, California, and taught on the Cal campus, and followed the criminal activities of the deceptively clean-cut, militaristic Black Muslim community in the Oakland area.

    I have deep and intimate ties with leading Hispanic-American figures on both sides of the “Obama” divide. I have studied the literature of your side carefully — and I know the Dem Party leadership well. Plus, unlike a lot of people, I really do read everything that comes out — and THINK ABOUT IT. I don’t just glance at the PR or the “talking points” — I listen to the people who produce it, and study their body language, and watch them whisper.

    I have run phone banks for Democratic causes, voted for Matt Gonzalez, administered polls. I know how polls are phrased to mislead. I also know how they are simply FAKED. I have listened to lectures from one of the dirtiest and least scrupulous of all Democratic campaign managers, Jack Davis — and his top people.

    Don’t assume what you read here is the work of “wingnuts” as one of your fellow travelers suggests. There are all kinds of experts out there today who, like myself, are not beholden to the system, and never will be.

    We want the democratic process to actually have some kind of meaning, that’s all.

    Either give the people candidates who actually meet the criteria set forth in the Constitution, and allow them to vote in a free — trick-free, lie-free — election, or DON’T BOTHER CALLING YOURSELF A DEMOCRAT, OR A DEMOCRACY.

    Registering illegal “undocumented” aliens to vote, as Democrats have done in California before, and have probably done again, IS NOT RIGHT. VOTING FROM MULTIPLE ADDRESSES (enabled by Early Voting) IS NOT RIGHT.

    Polling people whose answers you know ahead of time is not right.

    As for foreign laws: the allegiance of a candidate for President CANNOT BE IN QUESTION. If a person has spent a substantial portion of their life living in a foreign country as part of a family that had renounced its allegiance to the US in order to benefit from schools or other privileges in that society, that person clearly SPENT PART OF THEIR LIFE IN A HOME THAT HAD REJECTED THE US.

    NOT ELIGIBLE: CASE CLOSED. That’s why the Constitution says what it says.

  78. M Westbrook Says:
    October 27, 2008 at 2:58 am
    For your viewing pleasure!
  79. M Westbrook Says:
    October 27, 2008 at 2:58 am
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUdl46NYo5w
  80. Nanometer Says:
    October 27, 2008 at 3:26 am
    maria ashot

    this is not small town missiipi or alabama where wingnut philosphy and laws rule. sorry. outside small town, there are real finacnial power houses cities and metropolis. who abide by rules and laws. and are more educated. nobody has time anymore for WINGNUTS philosphies or conspiracies. in 9-days we shall say bye to your sorry behinds for the failures you did to us all.

  81. Serafinos Says:
    October 28, 2008 at 4:48 pm
    HonestyInWhitehouse — thanks for the canadianpress link — but the video didn’t work. In case others have same problem here’s same from youtube!😀

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiiUtS–b-c&feature=channel

    Hope this goes through — about 5 of my posts never showed up. No URL’s & clean. Hmmmm!

  82. Serafinos Says:
    October 29, 2008 at 4:56 am
    Howdy Nanosecond — we see your up early earning your wages for EVIL WORK! Careful, might want to close your blinds — the sun might cause you to MELT! lolol

    Far as Alamabama is concerned, since we’re only 20 mins from the state line … news covers it locally… investigations are well under way to discover a NEW MATH METHOD. Can you explain how there is MORE than 100% REGISTERED voters there????? Can you spell Obama ACORN, INC?????

  83. Serafinos Says:
    October 29, 2008 at 5:01 am
    Maria … SOOOO glad to see we’re not alone having the FIRE IN THE BELLY RE-LIT this morning! :D:D Great post!😀

    WOW — did anyone just watch the NEW McCain at their rally on Fox??? WOAH! WHO IS THAT MAN???
    Hope THAT HERO remains till the end!

    YAY!

  84. Serafinos Says:
    October 29, 2008 at 5:04 am
    (we need SMILEY CENTRAL — so dull without it lolol😀 lol)

    Maxwell — thank you for your service. Hubby, Viet Vet — sends his SALUTE!
    😀

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